Home > Uncategorized > Last Night At The Premier Pitch

Last Night At The Premier Pitch

Tue 7 October 2008 Leave a comment Go to comments

I understand from Dennis and Tom that last night at The Premier Pitch didn’t go well.

Maybe it was playing 6 v 6, which we haven’t done for a while (except at Bukit Timah campus), but I didn’t want to turn away old timers when Dennis was down.  For the same reason, I switched myself from last night to tonight.

Did you all play to the goal lines and side lines or off the nets?  Playing to the goal lines slows the game down a bit, and is fine when it’s 5 v 5.  Playing to the side lines slows it down even further, and reduces the effective space a great deal.  If you played to the lines with 6 v 6, I imagine the game might have been fairly static,  and thus “boring”.

I also understand that there were a couple of injuries to one side.  If there are injuries, the person injured needs to make a decision on whether he can carry on or not.  If he can continue, even if in goal, that’s fine, but if he becomes a liability to his side, it might be better to drop out and either re-jig the teams or modify the rules.

We need to be practical about these things.  High ideals about the “beautiful game” don’t always work out.   Football can be as much about being able to deal with set-backs or attrition as slick, attractive football.

Anyway, all views are welcome – and the result and line ups as well – as comments below.

If the general view is that 6 v 6 is no longer practicable at The Premier Pitch, The Cage and Sport Planet, this may well be the last 6 v 6 game at these venues.

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  1. Gilbert
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 1:18 pm

    On the contrary, I couldn’t complain about last night’s game. We played to the goal lines and off the side nets. Compared with what I’ve been through over the last two weeks, yesterday’s 6-a-side had it all: good skill, great passing, fantastic goals and even some heated exchange of words. There was passion, determination and the “desire to win” which fuelled each player to give their all. Granted that space was limited but it forced players to be more creative and execute accurate passes. And towards to end of the session when fatigue sets in, having that extra man may save some lives.

    For me, it really doesn’t matter if it’s 5, 6, or even 8 a side, as long as it’s not 4 a side. It’s all about enjoying the game together, sharing a common passion and getting some needed exercise. So if there are 12 guys who wants to play, let them play! On that note, if it is possible to gather 16 guys (or more), we should try having a 8 v 8 @ the Pitch. How does that sound?

  2. rajiv
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 1:30 pm

    I don’t mind trying 8 v 8 at The Premier Pitch Gilbert, just that I need people to confirm early so that I can make or confirm arrangements for the bigger pitch. The bigger pitch was still available last Friday afternoon, but was gone by the time we had 14 on Monday.

    Put up the line ups and result, and I’ll attribute this as your first session report.

  3. Tue 7 October 2008 at 2:33 pm

    The teams lined up as follows:

    Reds: Mark C, Bobby, Dennis, Damian, Louis Saha, Kin
    Whites: “2nd Wind” Teik, “2 V s don’t make a W” Clive, “20 minute” Tom, “Unlucky” Steve F, “Let me smoke a cigarette first” George, “No funny name” Gilbert.

    The game went well, and according to plan at the start. As expected Whites raced into a commanding 5-nil lead before Rajesh and Kin got Reds back into the game. The game was over when the former injured his groin though and thereafter it was a little more one-sided. The scoreline got tight, but I think it was more to do with Whites taking things a little too easy. Steve scored some stupendous goals, while Teik missed some sitters. Having said that, Teik played really well – he held up the ball, created space and made himself available despite some awful challenges. As Clive observed objectively post-match, Teik was always in a position to miss chances, a feat in itself; during the match, however, we really gave him hell for missing some easy scoring chances. Apart from some slick passing, Gilbert also scored a memorable goal, doing a Diego and beating the Reds defence single-handedly. Tom and Mark C were a little off-colour last night, while Kin tried valiantly to rouse the Reds.

    The final score was 13-9 (or 12-10).

    Thinking about the numbers debate, it’s actually irrelevant whether it’s 5 v 5 or 6 v 6. It’s how the teams play and utilise the space with movement and passing. However, like Gilbert, I’d like to try 7 v 7 on the larger pitch.

    On a less happy note, I collected only $64 last night, which meant a deficit of $16. Let’s be fair next time, or else we might have to adopt a “Pay before you Play” approach.

    @Jiv: You misunderstood. I didn’t that last night “didn’t go well” (as above). What I wrote was that I was “not happy with last night’s hour”, hence the need to play again tonight.

  4. rajiv
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 3:04 pm

    Sorry Tom, I construed your e-mail in the same way as Dennis’s earlier SMS that last night was “boring” and “severely imbalanced”, plus he had two injured players on his side.

    And you’ve “stolen” the session report from under Gilbert’s nose.

  5. Tue 7 October 2008 at 3:19 pm

    Jiv, now I know how Sushil feels and why he needs to play 2-3 times a week. You just crave for more. I’m not joking, but I swear there’s an element of withdrawal symptoms created by playing regularly. I wouldn’t say the game was boring, either; and with regard to the injuries, Damian’s foot only gave way with 15 minutes to go and even then he continued in goal, with Clive switching sides to leave Whites down by one player.

  6. rajesh
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 3:21 pm

    How could Dennis be bored when he made the most noise on the pitch and at one time , i nearly got deaf with his shoutings .

    I would say that the Whites played beautiful soccer . Alot of passings and that is what i call Soccer . I am sure we would have been on top of our game if we played more passings .

    My Salute to the Whites, you Guys played like LIVERPOOLS 🙂 even we wore REDs.

  7. rajiv
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 3:35 pm

    Now we’re clear what happened on the pitch last night, Tom is left to figure out who didn’t pay their share.

    Tom, as there were 12 last night, and if you collected S$7 per person, you should have collected S$77 (excluding yourself). If you only collected S$64, it would appear 2 didn’t pay their share. Don’t forget that up to S$7 of any deficit is your own share.

  8. Tue 7 October 2008 at 5:23 pm

    Well, the $64 collected included my $8. There was a fair share of topping up from previous weeks’ overdues etc. Anyway, next time, the dreaded list will be made public! By the way, speaking of dosh, thanks should also go to Teik for spending $21 on the red ball last month.

    Yes, you’re right, I should have calculated that $6.70 from each of the 12 would have been sufficient but maths was never my strength.

    @Rajesh: Well, now you know what we put up with all these years – some better than others. And I’m not sure whether to accept that back-handed compliment …

  9. rajiv
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 6:04 pm

    Tom, some rounding up is inevitable. The person paying for the session shouldn’t be out-of-pocket (especially since it is more often me), and even if a few extra dollars are collected, all it means is that that person pays slightly less, and the surplus added up over time to cover the occasional shortfall (when the odd person doesn’t pay – it’s only happened to me a couple of times in the last 3 months), and can be used to cover other costs, such as new footballs in the future. In any event, we’re not going to start keeping accounts.

    As long as you know who didn’t pay, you can collect it from them next time.

  10. Dennis@James@thechocshop
    Tue 7 October 2008 at 6:18 pm

    well to clarify I got bored…because the side was severely imbalanced…not enuf running off the ball and into space last night…and just cos I shout doesnt mean it gets interesting…its abt communication..albeit in a different form some of you are used to…and in all my years organising…I have never seen teams that imbalanced because it takes the fun out of the game seriously…yes those who have played with me..know I play hard and expect everyone in my team to give nothing less than 100% and having said that, often those playing in my team dont end up on losing side much…unless of course, Tom organises the line ups and his middle easter owners have come up with the dosh to bankroll his team…I usually try to balance the sides…and

    @Rajesh…you prob be glad I play in HK and no longer wif you guys…I just cant stand when there’s no urgency and communication when we play and certainly you wont expect “selakay – I am not sure how we spelt it” football in the team…when you are on 6v6 wif so little space and technically superior opponents…you need to exploit spaces on the wings behind the opposition defence..I have played it long enuf at BTC to know that…sorry if I annoyed you wif the shouting…yes, Tom had to put it up for years..cos sometimes he can be quite crap on the pitch..he was worse before..so he rather not play in my team because he knows he’s gonna get a real rollicking when he doesnt give 110%…i like to “stir shite” as Kin puts it…but I agree some pp dun deal wif it very well…those who do..have stayed on wif this commitment for years..

    anyway perhaps its a different style..but in such situation with such little space and tight marking, certainly we cant play easy…or pass to feet to dribble out of our position..we have to play our passes faster…because technically we cant beat the other team..you may not have played with the boys very often to know what you are up against…liverpool they may not be…clearly not Tom Teik and George…shows how much you know your opponents..but trust me when I know how good the line up was and severely imbalanced it was after I saw the strengths in our teams as well..no offence to you guys..I think you guys gave it your all last night..maybe at times we underestimated our opponents but in the end, I think we came good and certainly damian put in his shift and clive stabilised things when he came in and we got some passing going…it was not so much the other team was dat good but we were very poor…not releasing the ball when a pass was on..dat was diabolical..ordinarily I would say yes well done whites…but no, with the imbalance in the teams if they din win (actually I seriously doubt they did) they should go crap on themselves..

    anyway the takeaway was it was good to meet you lot again…to annoy and irritate rest of you and to show you what kind of leisure football you play…you should consider ramping it up somewhat…ha! see those of you who are coming again tonight…

    bring your ear plugs…and please..you all have a mouthpiece so communicate when you play…later hombres..

  11. Edardy
    Wed 8 October 2008 at 11:59 am

    Football or sports should be fun. Laughter and jokes is always good to keep it lighthearted. Faltering while busting a move will be common. But its ok. Because I’m sure that person knows he can do better and I’m pretty sure we are all adult enough to want to do better. We don’t need someone else to tell us how shit we did. Especially coming from someone who does not even reach the average benchmark when it comes to the technical side of things. The best critics does not make him a good player/coach. Win/lose, good game/bad game.. its an individual stand point after the game and should not be forced upon by someone else. just relax and take it easy. Why stress ourselves like we are in some professional league. Even they, don’t use as much vulgarities and negative shoutings at each other as some of us do on the pitch. Some of us are even new to the game. There are better ways to encourage better play. I think my game has improved tremendously without any shouting and negativity over the past two months. Football In our Forties and Fifties. I joined the team not expecting anyone to last 60 minutes or be able to run into space without fail or be mentally fit to endure the idea of 60 minutes of non-stop running. But many times i’ve been awed by impressive stamina and strength and determination. But those that do try but find it difficult, have a damn good reason why (Age/exposure to the game when young/exposure to the game when old/health/flat-footedness/a beer-guzzling habit) But its ok to have these shortcomings. Our lives don’t depend on a professional football career. So lets have a reality check and let everyone enjoy their sport. Personally I don’t enjoy a bad session, but i’d rather have a bad session than someone shouting negatively non-stop like he is a rude-betting-his-life-away audience or David Lee (ex shit singapore goalkeeper). Don’t mean to point names, but the most ‘angry’ sounding players yesterday ran the least, dribble wildly with no positive outcome, had terrible wild shots (which I actually have not seen in the past few weeks) and only stayed within their zone which is only about 1 metre wide and about 3 metres in length. Not a smart move for a pitch the size of a tennis court. Maybe the team didn’t synergise well, Maybe the style of the game has advanced and those two guys are not conforming. Cause i’ve seen those other players doing great in other games. So many variables that affect the game this day and ‘AGE’. Those who think they can do better, Good on you and you will get better. Those who think its someone else’s fault for a bad game, maybe try shouting into a mirror and see how ugly it is.

    NO GAMES. JUST SPORTS.

  12. Damian
    Wed 8 October 2008 at 3:00 pm

    Well..I had good fun playing on Mon nite notwithstanding this damn chronic fractured toe and blisters (caused by all the tape I put around it)! WRT to the “team imbalance” well we can’t always get it perfectly balanced, sometimes u get a good mix sometimes not..no biggie just hafta make do with what u have. As for the vocals…I have to say that it doesn’t really bug me and it all depends on how the individual chooses to take it and how well we understand each other. Some of us are more vocal than others and some of us are v passionate ab the game. End of the day, you do what you can…sometimes it may be that you do need the extra “prodding” to give that additional 10% sometimes you feel that you dont need it whatever it is, I guess it also depends on the individual. You decide how you want or don’t want to handle it. Above all, being in the same “FIOFAFI” group, the camaraderie belies all the disagreements..while each of us have our own differing and at times contrasting opinions on how things ought to run, its this diversity that makes it such an interesting group! 🙂

  13. dennis
    Wed 8 October 2008 at 5:38 pm

    yes good point Damian…I totally agree…some pp just dont deal with it as well with others…some just need prodding..some dont…some are too proud to be prodded…no offense to anyone who thinks he is too good to be prodded – but I think there’s a fair few in the forum yet as we can see from the posts recently. especially when commenting on the opponent’s team. I actually disagree abt some assessment from edardy after last night’s game at EC. Actually after mon’s poor game I was not too keen to turn up for tues…then again Tom didnt get his own at me on mon night so I decided to give him another chance last night which he duly obliged with another 2 footed lunge which could easily have either broken/twisted my ankle and definitely ill advised but fortunately better me than anyone else because I know what Tom is like…I think Franco din take too kindly to his challenge from behind..but then again, Franco that is just typical Tom..he means no harm…he’s just a clumsy old fart!

    well edardy bro, firstly you havent been playing with us for years…so perhaps you dont really know what is difference between verbal encouragement and shouting out of angst…but I dun blame you and personally I dont think its very generous for you even though you dont mention names that to make a non fafi approved comment that any particular person is not even average benchmark technically because honestly, no one last night was even at that level anyway. maybe they “think” they were…but similarly over elaborating on dribbles just lead to being whacked normally…and things get out of hand..my point simply is different pp play wif different styles..granted you dun like being shouted at..whether it be an encouragement or instructions but some pp as damian rightly pointed out, need encouragement and “verbal” communication before they can get their best out of them…some prima donnas who think they are real darn good obviously cant appreciate…cos they are prima donnas..statistically proven, in fact teams which communicate more, get shouted at…in the proper spirit…(which is simply defined as you get instructed from time to time to play as a team, pass as team, get told off if you dont follow instructions but more importantly, you are congratulated when you make the effort). the whole idea is everyone makes mistakes…we own up as a team, play hard as a team…sometimes the less equipped players even take direction from “better” players in the team to lead the team…yes I know this sounds preposterous to you but you need to realise..in a team there are some pp who simply prefer others to lead..there are some who like to lead…there are some who think they are a one man show…and irritate the hell out of everyone else in their team when they dont pass or only pass to their “best friend”….through the years, we have seen enuf of those and know it when we catch one.. end of day, my point is everyone has their own preferences and style how they like to play. if you dont like being shouted at…dont play in the same team as the appellant..simple. some of us are just more passionate about the game than others…just imagine…a game without communication is like we are in a black and white movie…when we just play..no talk at all…I am not sure that is football to me…it seems more like casual sex…ha!

    we have dealt with these things for years. damian couldnt have put it better, each of us have our own differing opinion and styles…some like to dribble…some like to score on their own..some just like to play as a team and shout to encourage the team.. its your own style. that’s why this group has gone on as long as it did. end of day, most importantly what happens on the pitch stays on the pitch and if you realise no matter how heated things are…we never get into a fight. otherwise Teik with the amount of dodgy tackles he dished out, would have been beaten so many times over…plus Tom knows he’s not my match…so he chooses to dish out the dirty on the pitch instead. ha! but feel free to continue to air your grievances bro..I mean anyone who takes time to write on these blogs deserves his piece!

  14. dennis
    Wed 8 October 2008 at 5:39 pm

    oh…btw…shouting is not about blaming someone else for having a bad game..its about telling the next guy…come on you can do better..or well done that was a great effort!…so for that, I dont think we need mirrors for now..! ha!

  15. rajiv
    Wed 8 October 2008 at 7:05 pm

    I am not going to add anything to the communication/encouragement v blame/abuse debate – enough has been said, and we each may have our own view as to whether any particular incident falls within one or the other. Shouting can be either.

    However, I think we would all agree that communication/encouragement is desirable, while abuse is unacceptable. Sometimes, anger, frustration and blame creep in, and some amount of that may be inevitable with differing personalities. However, excessive anger is also undesirable.

    There have been some sessions where I have noted that one side or the other is excessively quiet. I have sometimes found myself shouting to a team-mate who is in space to call for the ball. I would not need to do that if the person concerned knew the importance of communication. On other occasions, you do need someone to “gee up” the side.

    No matter how heated a discussion gets on this blog, I am not going to delete or censor comments (unless it amounts to defamation or encouraging criminal conduct). Anyway, it is better that it gets heated here than on the pitch during a session.

    On Tom’s tackle on you, I proposed some time ago that sliding tackles be banned, but there was little response at that time. On Tom’s two tackles on Franco, Franco reacted a bit I think more out of frustration at the way the game was going. The tackles were physical but in each case, Tom won the ball cleanly. I think Tom has a tendency to put a little bit of extra physical contact into his tackles, which may be unnecessary, but done in such a way that is hard to tell, unless you’re on the receiving end.

    I suspect Tom takes to the view that when you go in for the ball, you should make your opponent know you’re there. The view is that by putting in extra “bite”, you make your opponent wary of your presence next time round, with the chance they’re put off their game, and which makes winning the ball easier the next time round. I have little doubt you take to the same view Dennis, albeit you may apply it differently – with you, it’s can be like being run over by a truck when on the road, with Tom, it can be like being stabbed by a fellow passenger on a train. Hard to say which is better (or worse).

    One thing I do need to say is that no one has a greater or lesser right to express his views based on how many years he has been playing with us.

    Dennis, I still have an e-mail from you dated 6 November 2007 in which you state “I am trying to mellow down”. I keep e-mails for a reason 🙂 .

  16. Ooi Yu Teik
    Thu 9 October 2008 at 8:52 am

    what can I say, It’s like old times once again!

  17. dennis
    Thu 9 October 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Jiv, you are right on some points…but let me point out a couple of fallacies..maybe Tom disagrees but from his two footed lunges which appear very dangerous…one cannot say with tom its like a stabbing fellow passenger on a train..my tackles would ordinarily make the person feel like he’s being challenged cos as you rightly pointed out..you feel you have been run over by a tank/truck…Tom’s tackles are dangerous cos it breaks legs..teik used to do that albeit wif less venom…mind you I do slide tackles often too but hardly double footed cos I know the damage he does – on tues night, you could see his both legs wrapped around my ankles..I think my ankles are strong thankfully otherwise, I am not sure what could have happened..and I notice he does that quite often which is worrying but hardly at btc cos the ground is not very nice to fall on…unlike the artificial pitch..another reason to go back to BTC…

    secondly, I agree with you that “no one has a greater or lesser right to express his views based on how many years he has been playing with us.”

    I hope you are not insinuating that about what I posted earlier, cos when it comes to misrepresentations…I would take offence at that…ha! you see I said..”firstly you havent been playing with us for years…so perhaps you dont really know what is difference between verbal encouragement and shouting out of angst…but I dun blame you and personally I dont think its very generous for you even though you dont mention names that to make a non fafi approved comment that any particular person is not even average benchmark technically because honestly, no one last night was even at that level anyway.” I just dun think its nice for anyone to pass judgment in such platform whether someone is above average or sambalized or etc..in technical skills regardless of their own opinion. it becomes a personal attack and can be quite distasteful. I was just merely pointing it out as an unfafi like comment.

    Not to forget I also added…”but feel free to continue to air your grievances bro..I mean anyone who takes time to write on these blogs deserves his piece!” so Jiv old boy, perhaps you were too quick to jump the gun there eh?

    btw, dun take things out of context from the posts…my verbal communication on monday was nothing like my past…so I did mellow down..and if you notice, I din shout much on tues…if anything was to encourage my team…

    so now having proven these facts…I expect a written apology from you on my table first thing on monday morning! ha!

  18. rajiv
    Thu 9 October 2008 at 9:47 pm

    I’ll leave Tom to have his own say on his tackle on you.

    As far as everyone being free to have a say, I didn’t want anyone to construe what you said any differently, that’s why I put it the way I did, rather that addressing it to you.

    We’ll see you again when you’re next in Singapore, and of course, we expect to see your comments on the blog from time to time, in your usual forthright style.

  19. rajiv
    Fri 10 October 2008 at 1:31 pm

    I suppose one thing to impress upon Tom, Teik, and anyone else whose tackles occasionally put an opponent at risk of injury is that if you take out your opponents, from time to time you find yourself not having enough people to play with, not least because players are out injured.

    There are no prizes for winning a game, but there are rewards for keeping the sessions sustainable.

  20. Fri 10 October 2008 at 3:44 pm

    At the risk of wasting my time (and everyone else’s) on this discussion, here is my take on it.

    1. I agree with the starting point that

    “no one has a greater or lesser right to express his views based on how many years he has been playing with us”

    I’d just add that having views is one thing, but quite another for the view to be valid. For example, I could hold the view that the Earth is Flat. I’d be quite mistaken.

    2. Dennis’ comment that he has

    never seen teams that imbalanced

    as was the case on Monday is something that cannot be verified. It’s just his opinion; perhaps it’s just a throwaway line.

    3. However, Dennis’ assessment that this imbalance “takes the fun out of the game” must be challenged. I could understand if two uneven teams removes the challenge away from the game, but the fun out of it? Surely this begs the question: who is being deprived of the fun? I had enormous fun seeing Dennis frothing and shouting at his team-mates.

    4. I’m not sure if Dennis can back up his claim that

    often those playing in my team dont end up on losing side much

    In my opinion, the opposite is usually true, and going by the results on Monday and Tuesday, Dennis has a 100% record. To say this, of course, is not to insinuate that Dennis is a lousy player, etc.

    5. Thank you for your observations about my skills (or lack thereof):

    sometimes he can be quite crap on the pitch..he was worse before

    I have nothing to say, but I would like to refer to your statement that

    I just dun think its nice for anyone to pass judgment in such platform whether someone is above average or sambalized or etc..in technical skills regardless of their own opinion. it becomes a personal attack and can be quite distasteful.

    6. I agree with the comments made by Edardy, specifically relating to his observation on the inverse relationship between volume (disguised as “commitment”) and contribution. Edardy has put the case in a much more humourous way than I can. I wish we had taped Tuesday’s game so you could see exactly what Edardy meant.

    7. I can confirm my preference to

    not play in my team

    . First, a clarification is in order here: it is not “your” team just because you’re in it. I also take issue with you attributing my reluctance to be in “your” team

    because [Tom] knows he’s gonna get a real rollicking when he doesnt give 110%

    Actually, there are several reasons why I prefer not to play on the same team as you, but here is the most relevant: It is just so damm funny and I find myself actually laughing at you and the impact your “communication” has on “your” team. Sometimes, you remind me of David Brent (from The Office UK)

    8. I refer to the confirmation that you like to “stir shite”. Yes, I agree, you have an abundance of talent in this regard. You ought to be proud of yourself. Speaking of which, I’d like to address this issue of “rollicking” head on. Who died and made you Chief Rollicker? Did I miss a meeting?

    9. Unfortunately, this brings me to the single, most important point of this discussion, and it’s a serious one. Does anybody care to guess know how many people have been driven away from playing football with us because of Dennis? Does anyone want to guess? Personally, I know of six. I remember one of them (Charles) very well, and I really regret that he is no longer part of our group; not only did he have a nice sense of humour, but we could all learn from him about how to play the game in the right way. One Sunday morning, when Dennis abused Charles once too often, Charles finally snapped and gave Dennis the same “rollicking”. The point I want to make is that I made a mistake that morning. Instead of minding “my own business”, and just laughing at Dennis, I should have stood next to Charles and asked Dennis to leave.

    10. “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” (Edmund Burke)

  21. rajiv
    Mon 13 October 2008 at 9:45 am

    “… Dennis frothing …..”

    “Mad Dog” v “Demon Dog”? “The Truck” v “The Stabber”? This could almost be “professional wrestling” … without the wrestling … or the “professionals”.

    In all the years over which Dennis has from time to time had a go at you Tom, I don’t think I’ve ever seen you retaliate so hard or pointedly. I’m sure Dennis can take it, but I don’t expect him to take it lying down.

    What do they say about letting sleeping dogs lie? I suppose no one’s sleeping now.

  22. Mark L
    Mon 13 October 2008 at 12:08 pm

    Wow. Greetings from the Middle Kingdom where i find myself.

    Dennis certainly did bring some light and fire to the party last week.
    But i guess in a larger spirit, and based on my limited interactions with Dennis, and the reminder that we are all in for a game, we should

    (1) Play HARD (Committed as one can be, but Fair)
    (2) Abuse (Committment) is permitted, but factual, not ‘personal’
    (3) Personal ‘Bigness’ (within reason)… Means getting rollickng or !@#@ed, and being big enuff to forgive the offender.

    Hope when i get back in Nov, games are still on and we havent lost anyone…

    @ Tom.. gives as good as he takes though. Can come in hard, but normally not ‘dirty’. But also agree on sliding tackles.. esp at BTC. On sythentic turf, i am not so worried.

    @Teik- Same comment regards sliding tackles. But since point made earlier in year, has been much ‘safer’ 😛

  23. dennis
    Mon 13 October 2008 at 3:05 pm

    TOM – my my – wow!! has the oracle finally spoken now?? given that you have generously and bravely decided to air your views after all these years – I feel compelled to give my rebuttal…ha!

    All these years…the Tom the “Oracle” has kept silent…when worshippers from afar come seeking its prophecy but it remained stubbornly silent! today finally, he has spoken…and spoken in abundance!! Listen all ye who have ears!!

    Is this a demonstration of the years of pent up frustrations released in one go or has marriage or fatherhood released you of all frustrations that you can finally liberate yourself now to speak whilst I am away?

    Point is simply: historically if you ever had any issue wif me playing – you should have just taken the hassle and organised the games yourself. Perhaps your reluctance and regret to “stand next Charles” and tell me to leave stems from the fact that:

    1) we had every right as everyone who turned up to play to stay on the pitch;

    2) if you have the balls, carry on dont walk away (Charles chose to – but it was his choice)- I honestly din expect grown men to walk away from the team just cos he’s not happy and sulking – carry on but probably wiser – just not in same team – prove a point – show the guy who rollicked you it was his loss and you are better off playing against him!! hehehe… “my team” incidentally is figurative – I say its “my” because its easier to draw distinction and reference…everyone in the team can say “its my team” – maybe its a “warped” sense of belonging – sorry if you didnt feel that abt your team – I felt it – ha! certainly you are not so daft as to take it literally as I am getting middle eastern dosh to bring in a team of my own…silly boy!

    3) could it also be true – that your mistake to not stand next to Charles to tell me to leave – is probably down to the fact that perhaps its also been a mistake for you to have chosen not to keep the commitment of keeping things going – its been many years since you got organised and started taking the trouble to book the pitch, bring the footballs and get numbers organised…so perhaps you wanted to stand next to Charles and start pointing fingers but decidedly thot it prudent not to do so for reasons above because for the last few years – you were certainly not the most regular participant in our games nor did you do any more then turn up late when you saw fit to come…but hey, I have no problem wif that – infact more often than not – whenever I organised games – I am happy to have you or anyone else turn up for games – and you do realise that its strange that if I organised the games and bring the equipment and got pp down that I should be told to leave just because one guy cannot stand being in my team because he is not playing as a team? wif the numbers that has been playing wif us all these years – I guess no one had the same problem as you felt – those who did perhaps chose not to turn up anymore – you counted 6 whom you know personally who have been chased away – those 6 dun make the numbers infact I cant even recall 6 players whom you know who no longer turned up – are you sure you actually know that many players who played??? ha! – perhaps you mite want to think of those who stayed -I mean come on – we are all adults – what goes on the pitch – stays on the pitch – you dun like someone in the team – play for the other team – I have had my fair share of run ins – wif Glenn, Boon Yick, even Rajiv – they still played and we still got a good game going after all these years – because as mature adults – they know at end of day, its really just a game – we come back next week to fight another day -to do better – just as you hate to lose – yes, admit it you really really do – as do I – and I am not afraid to admit it – plus – honestly, when I had a go at Charles that morning…it was the first time…I have ever had a go at him…because he was not passing the ball and just dribblingly endless..I mean those of you who know Charles..knows his style of play…he loves holding the ball and dribbling..just as joel does…it was one of the few times he played in my team…it was also convenient his mistake resulted in a goal conceded by the team at that time…so I just told him to pass the ball and he got upset…I dun think you can call that abuse…I never scolded his mother or father or his son…so technically you are making defamatory remarks…ha! abuse it is not…of course then again we know abuse at different levels dun we then? ha! so you see there are always 2 sides to every story so just to make it more interesting…and balanced – I give you the lowdown… you see I like things more balanced..

    4) honestly I have always worked on the premise – simply – friends or otherwise – when we play – we play hard – we “rollick” – give it a go as we all do – I get it from heath from time to time as well – some like to shout – some dont – its everyone’s perogative – we are all grown men for goodness sake – surely one can take some telling off – especially when one particular player doesnt play like a team – and the others in the team does not think its nice to tell that person off – you may not know – but I do get comments pesonally from after game discussions from others when we notice a certain member in our team was not pulling his weight and playing as a team as well…its not just abt me rollicking pp – the only difference – I do the dirty when no one else in the team wants to be the one to do it…

    5) as I said that, we all have different styles – if prima donnas in the game cannot stand being told blatantly in their face – they are playing like madonna and not maradona – sorry – corny I know – then they are free to swap teams – that option has always been the case – every single game for the last 4 -5 years before I left in feb last year. yes, guys just so you know you can do that!! incase you are wondering…its in fafi rule 123….section 2(b)….Jiv, please pull it out…I think it goes something like…”every player in the team is free to swap, transfer, or otherwise cross the divide to the other team if he feels he cannot take any criticism, shouting, ranting or rollicking from Dennis. For avoidance of doubt, this option can only be exercised if one is playing in Dennis’ team and feel that he is about to go into a mental meltdown.”

    6) those who have continually turned up – probably realise we all come for a single purpose – to get a good game – sunday mornings – or monday nights subsequently – all wif a common purpose – if you felt strongly abt anything – you should speak up – albeit much earlier – but then again, you must have your reasons for holding it all in – only to implode now?? but I am glad you did – nevertheless – 8))

    7) I am just puzzled tho that most of us mellowed through the years – but perhaps I havent played with you for a while – or you havent turned up often enuf even when times you said you would but never showed – I havent seen you tackle like you did on monday and tues – I can understand tues – cos you were getting frustrated – but the difference is I let my “talking” “rollicking” demonstrate my frustrations when the team doesnt do well…I dun intentionally go sliding “through” the opponents in two footed lunges which is designed and aimed at maiming anyone – even Kin, saw that and he had to stop the game on Monday when you attempted the enfant horrible tackle on mark when clearly your frustrations were centred on me?? come on Tom..surely you are not arguing this point?? 8)

    8) so my point is simply – we all have views and grievances and frustrations to air – no one has a more or lesser right – just dun take it personally at anyone if possible – its not very nice and creates bad blood – when we play hard – its fine to give as good as it gets – but honestly I doubt 2 footed lunges are anything but fine – I usually dun mind if anyone plays hard cos I can take it – and give the same – but when I see my ankles wrapped between Tom’s legs – I think something is wrong – because I dun ever recall you tackling like that ever on BTC – then again like I say perhaps I havent played enuf wif you – I am not saying you are dirty – just reckless – and dangerous – I mean anyone can be reckless and dangerous too – even i – but it takes guts to make the admission – altho not everyone would be brave enuf to do so –

    9) well – pointedly said – I have almost always liked to play against you Tom whenever at BTC – but perhaps you have not realised – I tend to balance things up whenever possible – but otherwise we rely on the good old 5 by 5 ?? O-bay-som?? which everyone is so familiar wif – then no one can say if the teams were imbalanced – I mean let’s be really objective – can anyone seriously tell me the team on Monday was not imbalanced – anyone who truly knows the players for their ability – I mean apart from Rajesh, Bobby, Steve, and Damian – I like to say I pretty much understand the capacity and ability and quality of each other player that night – I like to think having played for years for those on pitch that day – surely I can profess that? so throwaway line it certainly isnt I assure – you did afterall tell George to wear red – cos you wanna win? – so clearly you recognised the abilities of George ” the Alan Shearer” to help you tilt the balance perhaps?

    10) those in my team dont often end up the losing side because when I jiggle the team and level the playing field – and everyone gives it a real gusto – and Tom happens to be playing on the other side – ha! – we dun often end up on the losing team (as least from recollection of the times at BTC)- funnily enuf I have also enjoyed playing against you – a worthy adversary – I am not sure why most times at BTC you have always been on the other side – but most of time, I have also wanted you to be on the other side, and you have always enjoyed it that way too! …but of course if you prefer to bring them in according to your fancy – based on the line up you needed to “win” then my record last couple of weeks shouldnt count for anything but if such small measure of vindication and triumph gives you pleasure for the next few weeks then old friend, I am more than happy to let you savour the moment!

    11) finally we are all free to have views – yes even the Pope – even the Pope is free to express his views on why there’s a credit crisis in the world – I am a catholic but your insulting the Pope on Monday din go down too well wif me – but yet I din tell you off or anything?? – because you are free to give your views – just as I – and everyone else is free to give our own views on the pitch on how each one in our team is performing – valid or otherwise – it doesnt matter – because as it is – its our own view – no one died and I got appointed “chief rollicker”! I just happened to enjoy “communicating” when I play….and no, you din miss any meetings…you just missed tons of games in the last 4-5 years..ha! you were asking for it when you made that comment!! ha!

    12) lastly, I am glad I provide you with humour when you say:

    “Actually, there are several reasons why I prefer not to play on the same team as you, but here is the most relevant: It is just so damm funny and I find myself actually laughing at you and the impact your “communication” has on “your” team. Sometimes, you remind me of David Brent (from The Office UK)”

    forgive me if I dont know who “david brent” is cos I dun watch The Office – but I am just as chuffed to have provided you humour on football night. we dun get that often enuf in our lives – yes, the impact of my communication wif my team is as I said – a style – my own style – everyone is free to have one – that is why we have so much fun playing on opposite sides – and I am more than happy to come up on the pitch against you again just like old times – because I make you laugh!!! ha!! yes, even tho I din have as much fun when you create such an imbalance in the team..I am glad I made you laugh…and finally open up…so that’s still reason enuf for me to play against you..ha!

    meanwhile have fun everyone…in SG – and enjoy the game! I am off to do some rollicking of my own tomorrow!!

  24. dennis
    Mon 13 October 2008 at 3:22 pm

    btw Tom, thanks to the technically efficient Rajiv…I appear to have proof that those in my team almost always win…esp when you are playing in the other team..hehehe!

    click on these…and chew on it mate! https://fiofafi.wordpress.com/the-blog/from-the-archives/

    sorry Jiv, I am not quite sure how to link it – but those of you who care to read the proof Tom is seeking…click on Rajiv’s “all the years” link.

    Ha!

  25. Mon 13 October 2008 at 6:50 pm

    Dennis, having wasted my time writing my 10 point post, I had to read your post to see how you would reply. By the way, my 10 points were divided into different issues. Your reply is numbered 1 to 12, it seems, only to demonstrate your ability to count.

    1. First, with reference to

    I feel compelled to give my rebuttal…ha!

    Well, where is it? Let me know when you have posted it, OK?

    2. Second, good manners prevent me from displaying your surname and family background on the web. You should not have made this personal.

    3. Most of what you have written revolves around you having organised the games for some time. When will you understand that that is irrelevant? I know you are not the brightest bulb in the house, but didn’t you agree beforehand that

    I agree with you that “no one has a greater or lesser right to express his views based on how many years he has been playing with us”

    Further, you now raise issues related to my “commitment” and insist that

    you were certainly not the most regular participant in our games nor did you do any more then turn up late when you saw fit to come…but hey, I have no problem wif that – infact more often than not – whenever I organised games – I am happy to have you or anyone else turn up for games – and you do realise that its strange that if I organised the games and bring the equipment and got pp down that I should be told to leave just because one guy cannot stand being in my team because he is not playing as a team?

    Your position is basically “It’s my ball, therefore I can do whatever I want”. Do you own FAFI and do we have to play according to your rules, your insults, your bullying? Furthermore, now that you no longer orgainse the games, are the rights which you have associated to the organiser now gone? Please understand the seriousness of my calling you dim. I went to St. Pats, for goodness sake! If a Patrician finds you dim, you really have no hope.

    4.

    if you have the balls, carry on dont walk away

    Why do you equate “balls” with carrying on and having to put up with you? It takes balls to stand up to bullies, too.

    5.

    as I am getting middle eastern dosh to bring in a team of my own…silly boy!

    Really, what or who is this addressed to? This is not the first time you mention middle eastern dosh.

    6. Who told you that what I wrote is defamatory? Did you consult a lawyer? Because, frankly speaking, now that you say it is “defamatory”, I am sooooo afraid. By the way, was that some juvenile attempt at a threat, Dennis?

    …I dun think you can call that abuse…I never scolded his mother or father or his son…so technically you are making defamatory remarks…ha!

    By the way, are you actually saying that “abuse” is defined solely as “scolding” someone’s parents or son? Are you serious, Mr. Brent?

    7.

    so my point is simply – we all have views and grievances and frustrations to air – no one has a more or lesser right – just dun take it personally at anyone if possible – its not very nice and creates bad blood

    I agree with the last 8 words. But do you actually understand what you wrote? Trust me, lah, quit while you are behind.

  26. Raj
    Wed 15 October 2008 at 4:32 pm

    I just read this load of garbage…….I must admit I have never read so much shit in my entire life.

  1. Wed 8 October 2008 at 12:48 pm
  2. Fri 10 October 2008 at 8:51 am
  3. Mon 13 October 2008 at 11:29 am
  4. Thu 29 January 2009 at 9:06 pm

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